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4 Dywizja Pancerna
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@ndrew 
TPS


Dołączył: 08 Maj 2006
Posty: 533
Skąd: Sopot
Wysłany: Nie Wrz 19, 2010 7:21 pm   4 Dywizja Pancerna

Proponuje nowy wątek o tej jednostce.
Na początek jej tymczasowy kwaterunek w Sopocie w I 1945-teraz Hotel Wanda nad morzem :)

Pzdr.
@ndrew

Hotel Wanda-Sopot 2010 2.JPG
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Hotel Wanda-Sopot 2010 1.jpg
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_________________
Eine Hand wäscht die Andere
 
 
Michał Szafran

Dołączył: 23 Wrz 2010
Posty: 49
Skąd: Sopot
Wysłany: Czw Wrz 23, 2010 6:47 pm   

A czy znane są szczegóły walk 4 DPanc w okolicach Pępowa 13 marca 1945 r.???

Tak na marginesie to w Militariach 2\96 jest krótki artykuł o ostatnim roku 4 DPanc.
 
 
gościu 


Dołączył: 26 Mar 2008
Posty: 123
Skąd: z Gdyni
Wysłany: Czw Wrz 23, 2010 8:57 pm   

No, nie przesadzaj, wcale nie taki krótki. Omówiony jest dość obszernie okres w dziejach dywizji od wiosny 1944 do maja 1945. Znamy; ciekawy artykuł.
_________________
Kopię w papierach; wszyscy gdzieś kopią...
 
 
@ndrew 
TPS


Dołączył: 08 Maj 2006
Posty: 533
Skąd: Sopot
Wysłany: Czw Wrz 23, 2010 9:29 pm   

Jeszcze w Militariach z 2009 jest drugi artykuł-tytuł: 'Od Baranowicz do Gdańska'
_________________
Eine Hand wäscht die Andere
 
 
@ndrew 
TPS


Dołączył: 08 Maj 2006
Posty: 533
Skąd: Sopot
Wysłany: Czw Wrz 23, 2010 9:38 pm   

Wklejam fragment o Bixie
(PANZER ACES Franz Kurowski Translated by David Johnston
BALLANTINE BOOKS • NEW YORK):

2 Hermann Bix - Alone Against an Enemy Battalion

Sixteen Tanks Destroyed

The following days saw the 4th Panzer Division involved in heavy defensive fighting north of
Dirschau (Tczew). The enemy attacked relentlessly with a tenfold superiority in tanks. From his
defensive position Bix could often see the Russians massing their forces for another attack.
On the German side cohesive companies and battalions no longer existed. The nonstop nature of
the battles no longer allowed the Germans the luxury of sending whole units into action. Tanks
were needed everywhere to back up the hard-pressed grenadiers.
While one battalion of the 35th Panzer Regiment was in action on the Tucheler Heath, holding
positions against superior enemy forces, the other panzer battalion, which included the company
led by Leutnant Tautorus, had been split up into small battle groups and placed under the
command of the various grenadier units in the areas of Dirschau and Prussian Stargard.
Almost all of the company's Panthers had been knocked out of action. Among the replacements
were six new Jagdpanthers, which had been destined for an assault gun company.
"Bix, you will take over the Jagdpanthers for your platoon," ordered the battalion commander by
radio.
The new tank destroyer was built on the chassis of the Panther and armed with an 8.8cm Pak
L/71. The fact that the gun had only a limited range of vertical and horizontal movement in the
fixed superstructure of the vehicle caused some difficulties at first. Nevertheless, the men of
Bix's platoon, who had been assigned five of the Jagdpanthers, soon became accustomed to their
new vehicles. Before long they would swear by the new tank destroyer and its powerful gun,
which possessed great penetrative capability and was extremely accurate.
"Bix, the Russians have just taken Prussian Stargard. You and your five vehicles secure east of
the village against a further advance. The infantry has been ordered to pull back. You are to
cover their withdrawal. Any questions?"
"No questions, Herr Major!" replied the Oberfeldwebel.
Bix drove back to his tank. Even though he was now commanding tank destroyers, he still
thought and spoke of them as tanks. Bix had taken up a position with his Jagdpanther at the edge
of the village behind a steaming compost heap. From there he could see the field positions just
abandoned by the grenadiers.
The infantry had been defending from behind the dark hillocks in the terrain in front of him.
From there they had opened fire on the Soviets whenever their tanks and infantry tried to
advance, but had been forced to withdraw to avoid being overrun.
"How does it look, Dehm?" Bix asked the Oberfeldwebel, whose vehicle was positioned to the
left of and behind his own.
Oberfeldwebel Dehrn cleared his throat before answering: "I'm almost out of ammunition. Only
six HE and four armor-piercings left."
"And you, Poller?" Bix asked the commander of the other tank destroyer in position there.
"It's the same with me," replied the Feldwebel. "Nine HE and three armor-piercing rounds."
"Very well! Poller and Dehm, pull back and intervene only in an extreme emergency."
Poller began to argue: "But we can ..."
"Pull back one kilometer and observe. Don't intervene until I call you."
Bix knew that with so little ammunition the two tanks would be a liability if the Soviets attacked.
He watched the two tank destroyers roll back. Then he concentrated all his attention on the low
hills over which the Soviets must come. The flat roof of the Jagdpanther projected only slightly
above the frozen compost heap.
It became lighter and suddenly, through his glasses, Bix saw two enemy tanks appear cautiously
at the top of the hill.
"Those are not T-34s or KV-Is, they appear to be American tanks," Bix reported to his comrades.
"They are about twelve hundred meters away. We'll take them. Do you have them both in sight,
Rollmann?"
The gunner nodded.
"The best, Herr Oberfeldr
"Then open fire!"
The first round struck the tracks of the right tank, which immediately stopped. The second round
set the tank on fire. Bright flames shot from the hatches and within a few seconds the vehicle
was enveloped in a red, molten cloud.
The second tank halted and fired. An armor-piercing shell raced by two meters above the
compost heap. Then the Soviet tank was struck by the first shot from the "eighty-eight." Loader
Schulz loaded a fresh armor-piercing round and Roll-mann adjusted his aim a little. The second
tank was also in flames.
"That took care of them," observed driver Becker laconically.
Bix nodded, then came a message.
"Herr Oberfeld, we'll give you close cover so the Russians don't get at you with Molotov
cocktails," reported Unteroffizier Wegener, a tank commander whose vehicle had been destroyed
the night before. He had assembled around him ten tank crewmen who were without vehicles.
They now established a defensive perimeter around Bix's Jagdpanther.
Bix called back to the Unteroffizier, "Good, Wegener, thank you!" Wegener crawled back to the
cover of the houses.
"Now we can't be taken by surprise," Bix informed his crew.
A half hour had passed since the destruction of the two enemy tanks when Bix again heard tanks
approaching. He scanned the terrain through his field glasses and suddenly saw two Russian
tanks about one hundred meters away attempting to outflank the village.
"Achtung, Rollmann!"
"Turn to the right, Becker!"
The driver swerved the Jagdpanther around.
"Good, I've got them," called Rollmann as both tanks appeared in his sight. From this range it
would be nearly impossible to miss.
The first shot pierced the flank of one of the tanks, which had not yet spotted the tank destroyer
lurking behind the compost heap. It began to burn at once. The second Soviet tank turned on the
spot. Its gun swung toward the deadly enemy, but before it could fire, the 8.8cm gun crashed
again. There was a hard, dry crash. The second enemy tank caught fire and stopped. Machine
guns began to rattle as the covering force opened fire on the fleeing Russian tank crews.
Bix reported back to company: "The Russians are seeking a weak spot!"
"Be especially careful, Bix!" warned Leutnant Tautorus.
"Will do, Herr Leutnant!" Then he turned to his crew.
"How is our ammunition, Schulz?"
The loader counted the remaining rounds.
"Five HE and twenty armor-piercing left, Herr Oberfeld!" he reported a moment later.
"Not counting the one that's in the chamber," added Roll-mann with a grimace.
Another enemy tank attempted to break through but fled into a valley after the first shot from the
Jagdpanther.
"I have twenty armor-piercing rounds left, Herr Leutnant, and am being attacked repeatedly by
enemy tanks," reported Bix.
"What about Dehm and Poller?" came the reply from the Leutnant, who was tied clown in
another sector.
"Dehm is out of ammunition. Poller has engine damage and is trying to get his mule back."
"You have to hold, Bix," replied the Leutnant after a brief pause. "The infantry hasn't pulled back
far enough yet."
Bix closed the conversation: "We'll hold until our ammunition is gone, Herr Leutnant. "
Meanwhile, the covering force also had been forced to withdraw as Russian patrols had pushed
into the village from several sides. Now Bix could no longer know what was going on in the
village next to him on the right. The Russians could do what they wanted there without
hindrance.
Suddenly Bix spotted movement on the facing slope. He raised his binoculars and saw that the
Russians had placed two antitank guns there, apparently in an effort to smoke him out.
"Attention, Rollmann! Antitank guns on the front slope next to the two round bushes."
"Target in sight!" reported the gunner.
"Load high-explosive!—Open fire!"
With the first shot, fragments of wood and other material flew through the air near the position
of the antitank guns.
"Stop!" shouted Bix. "The bastards have tricked us!"
The Russians had placed dummy guns on the slope so as to draw the German fire and reveal the
position of the tank destroyer. Apparently, however, the Russians had failed to spot the hiding
place behind the compost heap, because they now moved two more dummy guns into position.
"We're not falling for it this time," said Bix, grinning. "We'll save our ammunition for a better
target."
To be on the safe side he ordered the driver to back up a few meters. The Jagdpanther rumbled
backward. Now the enemy wouldn't be able to spot the tank hunter until they were in the village,
but Bix could still see across to the low hill.
Soon the Russians came rolling toward the village at full speed. They appeared on the hill in a
long column about twelve hundred meters away. In front were tanks, followed by supply trucks
and radio vehicles. There were also several personnel carriers. In the meantime, Bix had taken
the range of prominent features in the area of terrain in front of him.
"Armor-piercing at the lead tank!" he ordered. "But not until he's within eight hundred meters,
Rollmann."
The Obergefreiter waited. He tracked the leading T-34. When it had approached to eight
hundred meters he pressed the firing button. The tank destroyer's cannon gave a dull crack. The
Jagdpanther jerked backward and the armor-piercing shot whistled toward the enemy tank. It
missed, however, and instead sawed off the top of a tree just in front of the leading T-34. The
crown of the tree crashed down on top of the Russian tank. To Bix, it looked as if the T-34 had
taken the treetop like a bull on its horns.
"He's been blinded by the tree, Rollrnann. Target the others!" called the commander to his
gunner.
At that moment the leading Russian tank rolled into a ditch. It plunged nose-first down the bank
and was stuck fast. The following tanks were close behind. Their guns were trained not to the left
toward the tank destroyer's position, but to the right, where the mounds of earth from the
grenadiers' positions projected dark against the sky. The first Russian tank cannon roared. The
shell flitted into the abandoned German positions.
"Let's go, Rollmann, first the tank in the middle. Aim between the turret and hull."
They now had the Russian broadside in their sights. Nothing could go wrong. The first shot from
the "eighty-eight" struck the enemy tank, which was in the middle of the column firing the other
way, and set it on fire.
"Now the one on the end!" shouted Bix.
The Jagdpanther turned slightly. Rollmann corrected his aim and fired. The second tank also
went up in flames.
This was the signal for the beginning of a wild mixup among the Soviet tank commanders.
Several tried to traverse their turrets to engage their attacker. Others attempted to leave the road,
but the tanks were too close together in the column and there was no room to maneuver. Still
others drove into the ditches and became stuck there.
"Make every shot count!" warned Bix.
Rollmann fired and Schulz reloaded. The noise of battle raged like a hurricane. The Soviets,
taken completely by surprise, still didn't see the lone tank destroyer.
Rollman fired round after round at the Soviet tanks, which had now turned their tunets toward
him. The scene was one of fires, explosions, running tankers, and the repeated flashes of flame
as the Jagdpanther's "eighty-eight" fired.
A Russian shell struck the sloped bow of the Jagdpanther and howled skyward. Rollmann fired
and the shot smashed the Russian tank's tracks. He then aimed a little higher and the next shot
blew off the tank's turret.
For ten minutes the "eighty-eight" roared; soon the road was enveloped in flames. The tanks that
were wedged tight in the column were also caught by the flames. Eleven enemy tanks lay shotup
and burning on the road. Four others had been knocked out earlier. The lone Jagdpanther had
destroyed a total of fifteen Russian tanks without receiving a scratch.
"Now the trucks with HE rounds!" ordered Bix, while the men leaned against the steel walls of
the tank destroyer, drenched in sweat.
"We have only two shells!" shouted the gunner. And after a brief pause: "The machine gun
ammunition is also gone!"
That was the alarm signal to get out fast. Bix knew as well as the others that without ammunition
they were in trouble.
"Head back, Becker!" he ordered.
As the Jagdpanther drove back, Bix suddenly saw an enemy tank in the village to his right. It
must have been scouting ahead of the others. Not finding the German tank, the commander of
the T-34 had apparently sent back an "all clear" message. The rest of the column had come
driving toward the village right into an ambush. This was the only explanation Bix could think of
for the unguarded and careless advance by the Russian tank and truck column.
Bix's next order rang out above the roar of the motor: "Toward the tank!"
The Jagdpanther drove ahead a short distance and turned on the spot; the T-34 appeared in the
gunner's sight. From a range of eighty meters the T-34 was struck by an armor-piercing round
and began to burn. This T-34 raised Bix's total for the day to sixteen enemy tanks destroyed.
When he finally returned to the company, Bix was surrounded by his comrades. On this day he
had become the most successful tank destroyer in the entire battalion.
While the Jagdpanther was refueled and rearmed, Bix reported to the battalion commander.
Leutnant Tautorus was also present. He, too, had destroyed a number of Russian tanks.
The Knight's Cross for Oberfeldwebel Bix
"Kleschkau has fallen, comrades. It's our job to prevent any further advance by the Russians and
support a counterattack on Kleschkau by the grenadiers this afternoon."
Leutnant Tautorus looked down the line of tank commanders. Then he continued: "We must
form small battle groups, each of two or three tanks under a platoon leader. We no longer have
platoons."
A little later Oberfeldwebel Bix and his three tank hunters took their leave of the company
commander. The Leutnant bade the three tank commanders farewell: "Good luck, Bix! You, too,
Igel and Schwafferts!"
Then they set off toward the enemy. Bix knew the terrain from which the enemy must come,
because he had driven back over the same route. He therefore knew where the enemy tank
column would appear.
Bix deployed his crews accordingly. During the course of the afternoon they turned back the
leading Soviet tanks that were hesitantly feeling their way forward.
"We have a good field of fire and we know where they're coming from, Schwafferts. That should
give us a slight advantage."
"Yes, Herr Oberfeld, if we stay alert, we'll stop them," confirmed Unteroffizier Schwafferts who,
together with Igel, had gone forward to the commander's tank for a discussion of the situation.
Soon afterward they went back to their tanks. Then the grenadiers arrived. The commander of
the assault battalion came over to Hermann Bix.
"Can't you give us support until my grenadiers and I reach the edge of the village?" he asked the
Oberfeldwebel.
"I'm supposed to remain here and see to it that no enemy tanks roll through, Herr Major," replied
Bix.
The major's mouth tightened into a thin line. Bix saw the surprised expression on his face, which
had been marked by stress and responsibility. To hell with orders, thought Bix.
"Wait, Herr Major!" he called to the officer, who had already turned to go.
The major stopped. His expression suddenly changed. "You mean you'll really ... ?"
Instead of an answer, Bix said, "Assemble your men and follow close behind me, Herr Major!"
The grenadiers assembled. When Bix saw that they were all ready and waiting on both sides in
the ditches and bushes, he had his driver move off.
They moved forward quickly. The village appeared before the grenadiers. Machine guns and
rifles opened fire on the advancing infantry from houses and behind hedges.
"The heavy machine gun to the right of the house!" Bix warned his gunner.
"Target in sight," confirmed Rollmann. There was a crash as the big gun fired. The highexplosive
shell hammered into the wall of the house, shattering all the windows. Firing from the
heavy machine gun ceased abruptly.
"Onward, Becker, onward!"
They reached the village and behind the Jagdpanther, which kept nests of enemy resistance under
fire, the grenadiers cleared the houses of the enemy.
A round from an antitank rifle struck the side armor of the tank hunter.
"Antitank rifle, Herr Oberfeld!" shouted the radio operator as he opened fire on the Russians
with his machine gun. Again there was an impact, this time close to the gun mantlet. The flash of
the impact was a warning signal for Bix, because antitank rifles were damned accurate and
represented a danger, even for the tank destroyer.
"We're driving through!" ordered Bix. "Advance as far as the center of the village!"
He had to blast a path clear for the grenadiers. The Jagdpan-ther rattled forward and ran over a
machine gun position. An antitank rifleman fell under the right track. A wall collapsed as the
nose of the tank pushed through. A shot from the "eighty-eight" silenced another nest of
resistance and then they were at the center of the village.
At that moment a message came from battalion: "Bix platoon. Have special assignment for you!
Report to company commander."
Bix called in and heard the voice of Leutnant Tautorus.
"Chief to Bix platoon: return immediately. Enemy is attacking the main road to Danzig with
tanks. We must stop them or Danzig is lost."
"Herr Leutnant, we have to stay here a few minutes longer. The grenadiers have just cleared the
village. If we withdraw now..."
"You must withdraw, Bix. Twenty enemy tanks are advancing on Danzig. There are no other
antitank weapons in their path. Regardless of your present situation you must turn around and
return! Out!"
There was a crack. Bix called twice but contact had been broken.
"Back up, Becker!" ordered Bix. When they turned and left the village along the main street, Bix
saw that the grenadiers were withdrawing with them. An Oberleutnant came running toward the
Jagdpanther in long strides.
"What's going on up front? Are the Ivans coming with tanks?" he cried.
"I have orders to head back. Everything is in order up front!" he shouted to the Oberleutnant.
From the latter's disbelieving expression, Bix realized that he thought he was making excuses.
He swore bitterly to himself as he saw the grenadiers hanging onto his tank like graipes in their
haste to escape the supposed danger zone. But exactly the opposite was true. By hanging on to
the outside of the tank they were actually placing themselves in danger.
Mortars opened up on the Jagdpanther as it backed up slowly. The exploding mortar shells
knocked the grenadiers off the tank, throwing them dead or wounded to the ground.
"Faster, Becker. Damn it, faster!"
"But then we'll leave them behind and ..."
"Faster!" roared Bix.
Becker obeyed and the grenadiers were left behind. In this situation they realized that they would
find better cover in the houses and gardens than out in the open on a tank driving along the road.
"Damn, damn!" swore Becker. Bix's conscience also bothered him after having to leave his
comrades to their fate in order to carry out an order.
Leutnant Tautorus was rather excited when he received Bix.
"Take your three tanks in the direction of the 'Death's Head,' " he said. "Below the hill is a large
estate which must be held."
The Death's Head was a cone-shaped piece of high ground projecting from an area of otherwise
flat terrain.
"What are we to do there, Herr Leutnant?"
Leutnant Tautorus looked at the Oberfeldwebel. The small officer had calmed down somewhat
and this in turn had a calming effect on Bix.
"The Russians have surrounded a Volks grenadier battalion on the estate. They are attacking
with tanks and if they've eliminated the Volksgrenadiers then they'll drive on toward Danzig and
push into the city unhindered. That must be prevented at all costs."
"I'll leave at once, Herr Leutnant; hopefully I'll get through."
"You must, Bix. You must reach the estate before midnight and destroy the enemy tanks by
dawn, or at least prevent them from breaking through toward Danzig."
It was already getting dark. As if that were not enough, it also began to snow as Bix penciled in
the march route on his map. Looking at his map he saw that it was fifteen kilometers to the
Death's Head. In the darkness and blowing snow he would have to drive slowly to avoid getting
lost.
"Igel, Schwafferts to me!" He called the two tank commanders over and gave them a precise
briefing on the situation. Closing the briefing he said, "We will be met by two guides from the
Volksgrenadiers about two kilometers from the estate. We will halt them at first and I will go
ahead on foot, contact the commander of the grenadiers, and have him fill me in on the situation.
Then I'll come back and the dance can begin. Now to your tanks and mount up!"
The Jagdpanthers drove into the blowing snow. Their progress was slowed by the columns of
refugees heading west. They came toward them in dense clusters. More than once Bix had to
leave the road to get past the masses of people fleeing the Russians. Finally he couldn't wait any
longer. He drove through the columns and the refugees' vehicles had to pull off into the ditch to
let the tank pass.
The refugees cursed Bix. They simply didn't understand that this man and his three tanks were
there to save them, too. If he and his comrades failed to halt the Soviets and save the Volksgrenadier
battalion, then the Russians would break through and none of the refugees would have
a chance.
Despite everything they arrived on time at the place where the guides were to meet them. The
fact that they had made it despite the darkness left them in an optimistic mood.
"All right, comrades, wait here until I come back, understood?" With these words the
Oberfeldwebel took his leave of the others.
"We'll wait for you, Herr Oberfeld!" Igel shouted after him, then the three figures were
swallowed up by the darkness.
The three walked in single file through a park. All around the Russians were firing into the
farmhouse. Finally they reached a long, flat building and climbed in through a cellar window. It
was the main room of the distillery and there Bix saw a mass of haggard, tired soldiers sitting on
the floor. The major stood up and came toward the panzer commander.
"This is my fighting force, Oberfeldwebel. Early in the morning I will go into battle with these
men and you are to help me. How many tanks have you?"
"Three Jagdpanthers, Herr Major," replied Bix.
"That is not many, but at least it's something. Pay attention and I will explain the situation and
describe the terrain as best I can."
Tersely the major briefed the Oberfeldwebel on the situation. He showed him the general
situation on the map. A sketch of the estate was used to show the positions of the enemy tanks.
The commander of the grenadiers indicated to Bix where the tanks had been when darkness fell.
When he had finished, Bix nodded to the veteran officer.
"Yes, we can do it, Herr Major. Where can I swing wide and get close to the enemy tanks during
the night and where will I have a good target when it gets light?"
The major unfolded the map again. "Here, Oberfeldwebel, this hill called 'the Skull.' One of our
quadruple-flak is still in position on the hill. I haven't heard anything from them since the
previous afternoon."
"Hmm, that would be about 1,200 to 1,500 meters from the Russian tank position, exactly the
right range from which to open fire," commented Bix. "I'll try to get my tanks up there tonight,
Herr Major."
"Good, and how can I assist you?"
"It would be best if your grenadiers stay here in the cellar until they don't hear any more tank
gunfire. I wouldn't want them to walk into my line of fire during the battle," explained Bix.
"When the tank fire dies down you and your grenadiers attack the Russian infantry."
"Good, Bix! I hope for all our sakes that you and your three tanks do it."
They parted with a handshake, and the major knew that he could depend on this man.
Bix returned to his tanks, where he was met with relief. Briefly and factually he explained the
situation to the two commanders and three crews. Everyone had to know what was at stake here.
"All right, into the tanks and after me toward 'the Skull.' "
They climbed aboard and drove off. The tanks rolled along the edge of a wood and up a path that
led up to the Skull that was quite passable. It was already starting to get light. The shapes of the
estate buildings were emerging slowly from the darkness, when they were hailed just below the
hill.
It was a sentry from the light flak, which was in fact still in position on top of the hill. A
Leutnant explained the situation to Bix as he saw it. The Oberfeldwebel now learned how many
tanks were in the farmhouse garden and received precise information on his targets.
"Drivers, gunners, and commanders, dismount and gather around," Bix called to his men. He
then assigned each commander a position. They could now make out the whole outline of the
farmhouse, and each commander received a sector to keep under observation.
Then Bix ordered, "Back to the tanks and roll up to the crest so that your cannon project slightly
beyond it."
He and his tank were now at the foot of the Skull and completely screened to the right. To the
left and ahead he had a good field of view. When it had become somewhat lighter, he tried to
scan the area of the garden through his field glasses. In the morning twilight he spotted groups of
white figures which could only be the turret numbers of Russian tanks. Then he saw several
Russian tanks driving toward the estate from the right at high speed.
"Igel," called Bix to his left tank, "do you see the Russians?"
"I see them. The approaching tanks must be bringing supplies to the Ivans because their wheeled
vehicles aren't close enough, Herr Oberfeld."
"Yes, that could be."
As it grew lighter more enemy tanks were spotted in the estate garden.
"Do you have them all in sight?" asked Bix.
"All ready, Herr Oberfeld" answered his two comrades.
"Then open fire!"
Gunner Rollmann had targeted the white numbers on one of the tank turrets. The first shot
smashed into the enemy tank, which immediately began to burn. The other two tank destroyers
likewise opened fire. Panic broke out on the estate. The Russians had been taken completely by
surprise. The shouts and commands of the Russians could be heard as far as the positions of the
three Jagdpanthers.
Just as Rollmann was about to fire for the second time, another spurt of flame shot up from
behind the burning Russian tank. A second tank, standing close behind the first, had also caught
fire.
"We've scored a double!" shouted the gunner excitedly. He had every reason to be excited as
such a feat was extremely rare. The Russians now had to get their remaining tanks out of cover if
they were not to be engulfed by the flames, too. Tanks drove in all directions in a wild mixup.
Schwafferts and Igel each knocked out a Russian tank. The two had just turned and were
traversing their guns in the direction of the incoming fire.
Four T-34s rolled out of the garden and into the open. They were now completely without cover.
Rollmann destroyed three, one after another. The crews jumped clear and ran across the snowcovered
fields, their forms clearly visible.
"We're firing on the approach road!" reported Igel and Schwafferts. A little later Bix saw sheets
of flame and dark smoke clouds from that direction, marking the locations of burning tanks.
In the meantime it had become bright as day. The milling Soviet tanks rammed trees in the park,
knocking them down. Bix now had an even better view.
A few T-34s and KV-Is attempted to escape down the back slope, but Rollmann had the range.
He hit one of the T-34s in the rear. The enemy tank began to smoke, but it nevertheless reached
the slope and disappeared.
Rollmann began to say that the enemy tank had got away, when a twenty-meter-high spurt of
flame shot up from the far side of the slope where the T-34 had disappeared and there was the
crash of an explosion. The T-34 had blown up.
Igel reported four Soviet tanks destroyed, Schwafferts at first three, then another.
Bix scanned the area of the garden through his binoculars. Suddenly he saw an antenna moving
behind a barn. That could only be a tank.
"A tank behind the barn with the windows, Rollmann. He is moving directly toward the right
corner."
"Target in sight, I'm aiming at the next window!" shouted the gunner. He moved the gun slightly
to the right.
Rollmann targeted the window frame. The enemy tank must appear there. There he was!
Rollmann adjusted his aim a little higher. The white number appeared in the window and there
was a crash as the "eighty-eight" fired. The shell smashed into the turret of the Soviet tank with a
mighty crash. It halted and smoke billowed from the hatches.
Soon there were no enemy tanks to be seen that were not burning or smoldering. The three
Jagdpanthers ceased fire.
Jubilantly the grenadiers came storming out of the cellar. They had witnessed the surprise attack
by their three tanks from their holes in the cellar and from windows. They had heard the
explosions and seen the fires. The release from fear and the certainty that they had been saved
moved the high-spirited young soldiers to throw their helmets into the air. Then they came
running up to the three tanks, led by the major. When they reached Bix's tank, he was standing in
his turret hatch scanning the terrain.
"Oberfeldwebel, I thank you!" shouted the major. He reached for his Iron Cross, First Class, and
was about to remove it from his service coat.
"I would like to decorate one of your commanders with this, Bix," he said, seeing the questioning
look in the Oberfeldwebel's face.
"They're well provided for in that respect, Herr Major," replied Bix, smiling.
They counted nineteen knocked-out enemy tanks. In Oberfeldwebel Bix's field of fire were
eleven destroyed T-34s and KV-Is. The rest had been accounted for by Igel and Schwafferts.
The men took a break. They climbed down from their steel crates and lit cigarettes, some turning
their thoughts to the destruction they had wrought on the Russians and the enemy soldiers sitting
burned and shattered in the destroyed tanks.
In the following days the German forces were forced to withdraw to Danzig. After the city fell,
the tanks of the 4th Panzer Division fought on on the Frische Nehrung.
Hermann Bix awoke on the morning of 22 March 1945 and washed. As he was about to leave the
small, shell-battered house, the door opened and Leutnant Tautonis walked in.
"Good morning, Bix!"
"Good morning, Herr Leutnant! Is something special up?" asked the Oberfeldwebel, as he could
think of no other explanation for Tautorus's appearance.
"Actually no, Bix. I'm just bringing an order from Hauptmann Kästner that you're to rest today
and remain at the company command post."
"Then can I stand down my entire crew?" Bix asked at once.
"Certainly. They're not going anywhere without their commander, Bix."
Long weeks of great stress lay behind the Oberfeldwebel. In the past weeks he had destroyed
seventy-five enemy tanks and received the Third Grade of the Panzer Assault Badge, a
decoration usually awarded only for taking part in one hundred actions.
Danzig had fallen, but the grenadiers and tank crews were still holding out at the edge of the city.
What did this order mean? Bix couldn't explain it. Perhaps the battalion commander had a
special assignment for him.
The day passed. It was evening before Hauptmann Kästner arrived with the battalion adjutant,
Oberleutnant Grigat, and Leutnant Pintelmann, the battalion executive officer. Leutnant
Tautorus reported to the chief.
A little later the men sat together in a small room. Several noncommissioned officers who had
destroyed enemy tanks were also there. A round of cognac was passed out, but Bix still didn't
know what they were celebrating. Then Major Kästner stood up.
"Comrades, we have not gathered here without a special reason. I have the great joy and honor to
present to one of our most experienced panzer commanders the Knight's Cross, which has just
been awarded him. Oberfeldwebel Bix, I hereby present you with the Knight's Cross in the name
of the Führer!"
Leutnant Pintelmann had taken the box from his briefcase and the battalion commander now
placed the high decoration around the Oberfeldwebel's neck.
For Hermann Bix the surprise was complete. He had no idea this was to happen. Certainly he had
often been named and praised in the front-line newspaper as a "tank-cracker," but he had not
expected this.
The Oberfeldwebel from the small village in Silesia was now wearing Germany's highest
decoration for bravery. What would his mother say when she heard the news? What about his
teacher, his comrades? But his mother had already begun the trek toward the west.
Then Bix thought about his comrades who had always stood by him in the many, many actions.
The faces came and went. Several were buried somewhere in the vastness of Russia, others had
been wounded and evacuated.
They were bitter thoughts that moved him in this hour.
The war was moving toward its end. The troops fighting on the split of land called the Frische
Nehrung were squeezed together more and more. Only Nickelswalde and Schiefenhorst were
still in German hands. Feverish efforts were under way there to evacuate women and children to
the west by boat. Wherever the tanks went there were civilians, tattered and exhausted, a cargo
of misery and tears.
The soldiers who no longer had weapons built loading ramps and helped the civilians. But there
were still 180,000 people on the Frische Nehrung and it would take a long time to get them all
away.
It was the job of Hermann Bix and his panzers to enable this giant escape action to succeed by
defending the surrounding area. There, where the Russians were trying to break through, were
the tanks of the 4th Panzer Division; on the beach along the bay, in the dunes of the Danzig
Bight.
One of the Jagdpanthers was commanded by Oberfeldwebel Bix, who, on 20 April 1945, had
been named Fahnenjunker-Oberfeldwebel (officer cadet).
Ten defensive positions were planned. On 4 May, Bix was in Position 9. Bix was given the job
of fighting delaying actions back to Position 6 with the company's last four tanks, providing
cover until the last civilians and soldiers had evacuated the Frische Nehrung via Hela.
This was to last until 12 May. The last tank crews were then to blow up their Jagdpanthers and
be picked up by a motor launch that was to take them to a U-boat on the high seas. A light
cruiser of the Kriegsmarine was still in the Danzig Bight and was to provide covering fire during
the critical final minutes.
The Russians were pressing hard. They attempted to push into Nickelswalde, but all of their
leading tanks were knocked out. The enemy now moved his heaviest tanks forward. In Position 7
the four German tanks were outflanked by Russian infantry; nevertheless, they succeeded in
beating back the Soviets.
It had just become light on the morning of 6 May, when Oberfeldwebel Bix saw through his
binoculars that the Russians were felling trees for a barricade.
"What are they planning now?" he asked Schwafferts.
"Surely they don't intend to dig in now," replied Schwafferts.
Suddenly they heard engine noise. Then a cloud of blue smoke rose into the air behind the
barricade. A pair of Russians appeared and pulled the branches of the fallen trees to the side, and
Bix saw the muzzle of a giant gun with a muzzle brake.
"That can't be a tank," he observed. "Load armor-piercing. Range four hundred!"
His gunner had the target in sight. Bix checked his sight once more to ensure it was adjusted
properly. Then he gave the order to fire. As it fired, the area around the Jagdpanther, which had
gone into cover behind some fir trees, was shrouded in fumes and smoke. Needles showered
down on the tank, blocking the crew's view of the target. Also, there was no spurt of flame that
would have indicated a direct hit.
When Bix could see again, he saw that the enemy was still there. They fired a second and a third
time, but the enemy gun showed no ill effects. The Soviets now opened fire. The first shot struck
the ground about three meters in front of the Jagdpanther. Smoke and flames were forced into the
fighting compartment.
The second shot from the enemy's giant cannon raced past a few meters above the roof of the
tank destroyer, but the third was on target. Bix noticed that the recoil guard of his own cannon
rose backward and felt the blow of the impacting shell. The fearful crash of the impact left him
deaf. Thus he did not hear the gunner report that he could no longer see, as the optics port had
been shattered.
Bix tried to open the cannon's breech in order to peer down the barrel and aim in that way. But
he found that the recoil guard was up at the edge of the turret on the inner armor. Now he knew
that the gun mantlet had been sprung from its trunnions and that the end was near for them.
"Back up!" he ordered the driver, and the tank roared to life and began to move.
"Chief to Hofknecht," called Bix to the Feldwebel commanding the second tank in the dunes. He
had heard the order and likewise began to back up.
Bix then called battalion. Leutnant Pintelmann, who had been at the bay, came roaring up just in
time to see Bix backing away.
"Careful, careful!" Bix warned the Leutnant. But it was already too late.
The mighty cannon again spat a tongue of flame. The Leutnants tank was also hit on the gun
mantlet and disabled. He was forced to give the order to withdraw.
Feldwebel Hofknecht reached a side road and saw that the "battering ram," as they had named
the heavy assault gun, had begun to roll forward slowly. When he had the entire broadside of the
newest and heaviest Russian assault gun in his sight, he fired two armor-piercing rounds into its
flank. The crew climbed out and surrendered to the Feldwebel.
Feldwebel Hofknecht saw that the three shots from Bix's cannon had struck the center of the bow
of the assault gun and had penetrated about ten centimeters. They had been unable, however, to
pierce the twenty-centimeter-thick, sloped frontal armor.
Oberfeldwebel Bix had finished second-best this day. Two days later he received orders from the
battalion commander to withdraw toward Nickelswalde with his crew. On the way he heard from
civilians that Germany had already surrendered.
During the night they sailed for Hela aboard a Kriegsmarine vessel. Just before reaching their
destination they were picked up by two minesweepers, which was fortunate, as otherwise they
would never have escaped from Hela.
On 14 May they reached Kiel and entered British captivity. The war was over....
_________________
Eine Hand wäscht die Andere
 
 
@ndrew 
TPS


Dołączył: 08 Maj 2006
Posty: 533
Skąd: Sopot
Wysłany: Czw Paź 28, 2010 2:53 am   

idziemy wolno ale do przodu:
http://www.panther1944.de....php?f=3&t=2622
_________________
Eine Hand wäscht die Andere
 
 
MirasXS 

Dołączył: 31 Gru 2007
Posty: 236
Skąd: Gdynia
Wysłany: Nie Lis 14, 2010 7:47 pm   

jesli jest mowa ogolnie o 4 pancernej to mam dwa pytania:
pytanie 1.
5 kompania z 35 pulku pancernego,jest ujeta jako rezerwowa.Pytanie-jakie zadania miala ta kompania poza byciem w rezerwie.Czy kompania byla tylko numerem czy posiadala sile ludzka?Moge sie tylko domyslac iz jesli w sklad kompani wchodzili jacys zolnierze to ,moze spelniali funkcje niszczycieli czolgow uzbrojonych w panzerfausty.
pytanie 2.
Sturmgesch-Abt.904 czyli Brygada dzial szturmowych 904.Doczytalem,iz latem 44 zostali podporzadkowani 4 dywizji pancernej.Nic nie znalazlem po tej dacie.Ciekawe iz w skladzie 4 pancernej ta brygada nie jest ujeta w roku 1945.Co sie z nimi stalo?Mam powody przypuszczac a nawet jestem pewien iz jacys zolnierze z tej brygady byli w okolicach 3miasta ,moze nawet w skladzie 4 pancernej.
 
 
Cezar
[Usunięty]

Wysłany: Pon Lis 15, 2010 7:53 pm   

Pytanie 1 - Mógłbyś podać źródło informacji, w którym 5 kompania ujęta jest jako rezerwowa? Na FdW jest informacja, że w 1942 r. 5 kompania została rozwiązana i rozdzielona pomiędzy I i II batalion pułku.

Pytanie 2 - małe sprostowanie dotyczące nazewnictwa - Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 904 to nie brygada dział szturmowych a oddział (dywizjon) dział szturmowych, który brygadą (Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 904) stał się dopiero 14 lutego 1944 r.
 
 
MirasXS 

Dołączył: 31 Gru 2007
Posty: 236
Skąd: Gdynia
Wysłany: Sob Lis 20, 2010 5:38 am   

pt.1 Informacja z internetu.Skoro w 1942 jak piszesz rozdzielono to w 45 rozdawano jeszcze blaszki z ta numeracja?z przebitymi numerami zolnirza?
pt.2
Wybacz nie rozumiem o co ci chodzi,chcesz zablysnac wiedza i umiejetnoscia rozszyfrowania blaszki?przeczytaj raz jeszcze moje pytanie,a wyjdzie iz dobrze rozszyfrowalem i pytam o ich losy w 1945.
 
 
Cezar
[Usunięty]

Wysłany: Sob Lis 20, 2010 3:18 pm   

Pyt. 1 - Jeśli masz zdjęcie takiej blaszki, to wklej, będzie łatwiej razem coś pokombinować.
Pyt. 2 - Myślę, że wyraziłem się dość klarownie i nie było moim zamysłem zabłysnięcie wiedzą. Po prostu zwróciłem uwagę, że jeśli w nazwie jednostki jest Abtelilung, to nie oznacza to brygady a szczebel zdecydowanie niższy. Tak więc proszę nie pisz, że dobrze rozszyfrowałeś nazwę tej jednostki, bo mijasz się z prawdą. To tak jakbyś w nazwie pododdziału miał pluton a nazywał to batalionem. Rozumiesz o co mi chodzi?
 
 
Arek 2 


Wiek: 40
Dołączył: 02 Wrz 2006
Posty: 441
Wysłany: Sob Lis 20, 2010 8:59 pm   

Cezar napisał/a:
jeśli w nazwie jednostki jest Abtelilung, to nie oznacza to brygady a szczebel zdecydowanie niższy. Tak więc proszę nie pisz, że dobrze rozszyfrowałeś nazwę tej jednostki, bo mijasz się z prawdą. To tak jakbyś w nazwie pododdziału miał pluton a nazywał to batalionem.

Wprawdzie nie sposób się z Tobą nie zgodzić jednak użyłeś trochę niefortunnie porównania. W tym wypadku chodzi o to, że w trakcie działań wojennych jednostka ta rozrosła się z dywizjonu do brygady.

Ja bym porównał to do przykładu 1 Morskiego Batalionu Strzelców, który w ,,przeddzień” wybuchu wojny zmienił strukturę i stał się 1 Morskim Pułkiem Strzelców. Taki fakt pomaga w datowaniu np. wydarzenia lub znaleziska.
 
 
Cezar
[Usunięty]

Wysłany: Nie Lis 21, 2010 12:07 am   

Arek 2, przecież to samo napisałem w swoim pierwszym poście w tym temacie...
Stwierdzenie, iż Sturmgesch-Abt.904 czyli Brygada dzial szturmowych 904 nie jest prawdziwe, bo Abteilung ≠ brygada. Wystarczyło napisać Sturmgesch-Abt.904 czyli późniejsza Brygada dzial szturmowych 904 i nie wzbudza to żadnych kontrowersji. Może się czepiam, ale w takich sprawach lubię porządek.
 
 
Arek 2 


Wiek: 40
Dołączył: 02 Wrz 2006
Posty: 441
Wysłany: Nie Lis 21, 2010 8:36 am   

Cezar przecież napisałem, że nie pasuje mi Twoje porównanie a nie to co napisałeś w pierwszym swoim poście w tym temacie :wink: .
 
 
Cezar
[Usunięty]

Wysłany: Nie Lis 21, 2010 11:45 am   

Ok, więc spójrz jak to brzmi: 3 pluton zmechanizowany czyli 3 batalion zmechanizowany. Bez sensu, prawda? W ten sam sposób zostało to ujęte tutaj. Dobra, kończmy te wywody i wracajmy do tematu. :wink:
MirasXS napisał/a:
Sturmgesch-Abt.904 czyli Brygada dzial szturmowych 904.Doczytalem,iz latem 44 zostali podporzadkowani 4 dywizji pancernej.Nic nie znalazlem po tej dacie.Ciekawe iz w skladzie 4 pancernej ta brygada nie jest ujeta w roku 1945.Co sie z nimi stalo?Mam powody przypuszczac a nawet jestem pewien iz jacys zolnierze z tej brygady byli w okolicach 3miasta ,moze nawet w skladzie 4 pancernej.

Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 904, a od 14 lutego 1944 r. Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 904, był tylko dwukrotnie podporządkowany pod 4 dywizję pancerną w okresach:
- Luty 1943 - 1 kwietnia 1943
- 17 lipca 1944 - 2 września 1944
Mimo to, w strukturze dywizji z lata 1944 r. brygada dział szturmowych nie widnieje. Wynika to z faktu, iż tego typu jednostki były jednostkami samodzielnymi przeznaczonymi do czasowego wsparcia innych jednostek. Co się działo z 904 brygadą dział szturmowych później? Możesz przeczytać np. tu: 904

4_PD.jpg
Źródło: 4 Panzer Division 1944-1945, Wydawnictwo Militaria
Plik ściągnięto 5322 raz(y) 115,29 KB

 
 
gościu 


Dołączył: 26 Mar 2008
Posty: 123
Skąd: z Gdyni
Wysłany: Nie Lis 21, 2010 5:27 pm   

Dla porównania- marzec 1945 (żródło-jak wyżej):

4.Pz.Div.-marzec 1945.jpg
Plik ściągnięto 5312 raz(y) 89,67 KB

_________________
Kopię w papierach; wszyscy gdzieś kopią...
 
 
Arek 2 


Wiek: 40
Dołączył: 02 Wrz 2006
Posty: 441
Wysłany: Nie Lis 21, 2010 7:08 pm   

Jak dla mnie to ta sama jednostka tyle, że się rozrosła. W jakiejś części to byli ci sami żołnierze i pewnie częściowo ten sam sprzęt. Może ja również się czepiam, ale w takich sprawach lubię porządek :razz: .

Miras zamiast użyć słowa ,,późniejszy” napisał ,,czyli” i z zrobiła się afera.

Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 904
Wehrkreis responsible for formation: Wehrkreis XIII.
Date of Formation: 15 Dec.1942:
----- At the Jüterbog Truppenübungsplatz, Wehrkreis III.
First Commanding Officer: Hauptmann Wiegels.
Replacement Units or Replacement & Training Units:
----- Sturmgeschütz-Ersatz [und Ausbildungs]-Abteilung 200.
----- Sturmgeschütz-Ersatz [und Ausbildungs]-Abteilung 400.
UNIT HISTORY:
3 Jan.1943..... Originally designated Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 270 but this order was soon cancelled.
Feb. to 1 Apr.1943..... transferred to Eastern Front and attached to 4. Panzer-Division, 2. Armee, Heeresgruppe B.
4 Jul.1943..... Attached to XLVII. Panzerkorps, 9. Armee, Heeresgruppe Mitte, stationed in the area around Orel.
8 to 9 Aug.1943..... One batterie attached to 45. Infanterie-Division, XX. Armeekorps.
16 Nov.1943..... 1.Bttr./Stu.Gesch.Abt.904 attached to LVI. Panzerkorps, 2. Armee, Heeresgruppe Mitte.
24 Jan.1944..... 3.Bttr./Stu.Gesch.Abt.904 attached to LVI. Panzerkorps, 2. Armee, Heeresgruppe Mitte.
*14 Feb.1944..... Redesignated Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 904.

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=9187

Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 904
Wehrkreis responsible for formation: Wehrkreis X.
Date of Formation: 14 Feb.1944:
----- Formed by renaming Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 904.
First Commanding Officer: Major Kurt Türke.
Replacement Units or Replacement & Training Units:
----- Sturmgeschütz-Ersatz [und Ausbildungs]-Abteilung 200.
----- Sturmgeschütz-Ersatz [und Ausbildungs]-Abteilung 400.
UNIT HISTORY:
Jun.1944..... Attached to VIII. Armeekorps, 2. Armee, Heeresgruppe Mitte.
Jul.1944..... Attached to Gruppe “Hartenek”, 2. Armee, Heeresgruppe Mitte.
17 Jul.1944..... Attached to 4. Panzer-Division, Gruppe “Hartenek”, 2. Armee, Heeresgruppe Mitte.
2 Sep.1944..... Attached to Kavalleriekorps, 2. Armee, Heeresgruppe Mitte.
2 Oct.1944..... Attached to Kavalleriekorps, 2. Armee, Heeresgruppe Mitte
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=9190

Faktycznie niewiele w sieci o Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 904. Znalazłem tekst o odznaczonym krzyżem rycerskim oficerze tej jednostki. Może to coś naświetli.
http://www.ritterkreuztra...ider-Konrad.htm

Tu jeszcze jeden z tej jednostki. Zdaje się, że miał na koncie 50 zniszczonych czołgów.

http://www.ritterkreuztra...itsch-Felix.htm

P.S. Miras można prosić o fotkę tej blaszki?
 
 
MirasXS 

Dołączył: 31 Gru 2007
Posty: 236
Skąd: Gdynia
Wysłany: Nie Lis 28, 2010 12:34 am   

Panowie mam serdecznie w d... czy abt to..... .Interesuje mnie temat 1945 tej jednostki a nie poprawnosc nazewnictwa.
Podstawowa wada tego forum jest iz ,schodzi sie tu z tematu a wybiera sie tematy zastepcze.Skoro nikt nie ma wiedzy na temat zadanego pytania to prosze to napisac.
Co zas sie tyczy czy Abt to brygada.Posiadam blache 1/sturmgsch-Abt.904 z "naszego"terenu i stad moje zainteresowanie ta jednostka w 1945.Odnosnie nazewnictwa-
W pismie Militaria z 1996 roku nr.2 na stronie 7 jest zdjecie podpisane:
"Dzialo szturmowe sturmgeschutz 40 Ausf.G,prawdopodobnie z 904 Brygady dzial szturmowych,podporzadkowanej przejsciowo 4 Dywizji Pancernej w lipcu 1944".
Autorami artykulu bylo dwuch panow ,jacy przedstawili sporo fotek,opisali szlak bojowy co do godziny,kilka ciekawostek,potwierdzili materialami ksiazkowymi i zamiescili w wydawnictwie Militaria -i sie myla a pan Cezar wie lepiej.Gratuluje Cezar.
 
 
gościu 


Dołączył: 26 Mar 2008
Posty: 123
Skąd: z Gdyni
Wysłany: Nie Lis 28, 2010 10:14 am   4.Pz.Div.

Dokładnie tak, jak na skanie.
XS; czy wrzucałeś gdzieś foto tej blachy? Jak nie to poproszę... :roll:

Pozdrowienia :wink:

Scan01.jpg
Plik ściągnięto 5249 raz(y) 104,21 KB

_________________
Kopię w papierach; wszyscy gdzieś kopią...
Ostatnio zmieniony przez gościu Nie Lis 28, 2010 1:34 pm, w całości zmieniany 1 raz  
 
 
borowiki 


Dołączył: 18 Kwi 2006
Posty: 626
Skąd: z nikąd
Wysłany: Nie Lis 28, 2010 11:51 am   

A z jakiego pojazdu zostało zrobione zdjęcie?
_________________
Szanuj las! Bo i Ty możesz zostać kiedyś partyzantem!
 
 
gościu 


Dołączył: 26 Mar 2008
Posty: 123
Skąd: z Gdyni
Wysłany: Nie Lis 28, 2010 1:41 pm   

Jakiś Sd.Kfz.-?
_________________
Kopię w papierach; wszyscy gdzieś kopią...
 
 
MirasXS 

Dołączył: 31 Gru 2007
Posty: 236
Skąd: Gdynia
Wysłany: Nie Lis 28, 2010 1:52 pm   

Krzysiu,zdjecia fantow robie okazjonalnie.Blachy sa w odpowiednim klaserku i bede kiedys fotki robil to zapodam ci na PW.
 
 
Cezar
[Usunięty]

Wysłany: Nie Lis 28, 2010 4:14 pm   

MirasXS napisał/a:
Odnosnie nazewnictwa-
W pismie Militaria z 1996 roku nr.2 na stronie 7 jest zdjecie podpisane:
"Dzialo szturmowe sturmgeschutz 40 Ausf.G,prawdopodobnie z 904 Brygady dzial szturmowych,podporzadkowanej przejsciowo 4 Dywizji Pancernej w lipcu 1944".
Autorami artykulu bylo dwuch panow ,jacy przedstawili sporo fotek,opisali szlak bojowy co do godziny,kilka ciekawostek,potwierdzili materialami ksiazkowymi i zamiescili w wydawnictwie Militaria -i sie myla a pan Cezar wie lepiej.Gratuluje Cezar.

Dziękuję za słowa uznania :wink: Powiedz tylko, gdzie tych panów się myli, bo jakoś nie zaskoczyłem? Dywizjon stał się brygadą w lutym 1944, więc był nią jak najbardziej w lipcu tego roku, w czasie gdy zrobiono to zdjęcie. Gdzie tkwi więc problem, bo jakoś nie widzę? Aha, nie jestem żaden pan, po prostu Cezar. :wink:
 
 
MirasXS 

Dołączył: 31 Gru 2007
Posty: 236
Skąd: Gdynia
Wysłany: Nie Lis 28, 2010 7:30 pm   

chlopie co ty chcesz udowodnic.Czepiasz sie tego ABT jak rzep ogona.O co ci chodzi,co to ma za znaczenie,skoro dywizje byly tylko z nazwy,bataliony liczebnie kompanii.Nie masz wiedzy w temacie 4 panc,to zaprzestan prowokacji.masz cos do powiedzenia w temacie 1945,chetnie przeczytam.Jestes zwyczajnie upierdliwy.
 
 
Cezar
[Usunięty]

Wysłany: Nie Lis 28, 2010 8:00 pm   

Bez nerwów proszę i staraj się pisać tak, żeby inni mogli Cię zrozumieć. W poprzednim poście wysnułeś jakąś dziwną teorię a teraz zamiast przyznać się, że strzeliłeś gafę, od razu zaczynasz osobistym atakiem na interlokutora (to takie typowe jak się nie umie prowadzić kulturalnej dyskusji). Możesz wyjaśnić raz jeszcze o co Ci chodzi w poście, którego fragment cytowałem? Informacje, które podałem we wcześniejszych postach, pokrywają się z podpisem na zdjęciu. W czym tkwi więc problem?!
P.S. Następnym razem przed napisaniem postu proponuję wziąć 10 głębokich oddechów relaksacyjnych. :wink:
 
 
beaviso 
Teen obesity kicks ass!


Wiek: 36
Dołączył: 14 Lip 2007
Posty: 1006
Skąd: Gdańsk
Wysłany: Nie Lis 28, 2010 9:19 pm   

Miras, Cezar ma 100% racji.

Abt. (Abteilung) to był, jest i będzie dywizjon, a nie żadna brygada - i wobec tego nie ma w ogóle żadnej dyskusji! Trzymajmy się nomenklatury, bo inaczej utoniemy w bylejakości i pospolitych bzdurach.

Dywizjony dział szturmowych "urosły" w lutym 1944 roku do brygad. Stąd podpis pod zdjęciem w "Militariach" jest prawidłowy, czemu Cezar nie zaprzeczał. A Twój nieśmiertelnik został wybity prawdopodobnie przed lutym 1944 - prawdopodobnie, bo na wojnie jak na wojnie, bywało nieco chaosu.

M.
_________________
Iron Maiden @ Brno, 08.06.2014
Iron Maiden @ Poznań, 24.06.2014



 
 
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THEME by: Jozdowska - Tyrlik Edyta